We plan to introduce an approach mode in the forthcoming version of SkyDemon. The problem we wish to solve is that SkyDemon Mobile isn't providing enough help after you have your destination airfield in sight, or are at least on your final leg towards it. The idea is, you will select the runway you're landing on (by tapping its extended centreline or more explicitly through another screen) and then you'll get a window showing a standard circuit pattern (direction switchable).

In this window, we'll show some useful info such as runway dimensions and possibly approach frequencies. These frequencies might appear in an overlay on the main map too, afterwards. We may allow you to select a position in the circuit to join (downwind, deadside, base, finals etc) and your route would be modified so that you're no longer terminating at the airfield ARP but at the circuit position you specify. Or, we could automatically take you to the most appropriate part of the circuit based on your current position in relation to it.

We're looking for feedback on how this feature might work, what you would find useful. Maybe it's a terrible idea and we should forget it entirely. Maybe it should be completely automatic in some way. Maybe we should just be drawing a standard circuit diagram on the main map and leave it at that, once you've selected direction.

Cheers!

Great idea, no matter which way you implement the function, as automatic as possible would be great.

Maybe an option to set a "default pattern" for certain airfields where you/we know they require a standard overhead join, or where they will allow the most direct join, etc. then a manual override......

Thumbs up from me!

Steve

Aero AT3-R100, C172 Skyhawk, EGBK Sywell

Good idea but I think you need to be very careful. There are so many non-standard circuits around (right-hand, different heights, noise abatement procedures etc.) that I think that unless you can include data on actual circuit patterns, superimposing a "standard" circuit pattern onto the chosen runway could be giving people potentially dangerous misinformation. From experience I know how easy it is to drift into blindly trusting and following GPS guidance. Although I think that SkyDemon is a brilliant tool for cross country navigation and airspace and NOTAM awareness, I'm inclined to think that in the circuit the pilot is better off being forced to actually THINK rather than just "following the pink line". After all, I'm just at good at getting lost on a cross country navigation as the next man but if I found I needed a GPS to get me down from the circuit I think I would be spending some money on some instructor time!

I agree totally. I don't want SkyDemon to be guiding people around a circuit, especially if we don't have sufficient data to draw an accurate local circuit (this is basically out of the question).

What I would like to do is to help people form that mental picture of where they are in relation to the circuit in use, before they have to start thinking about joining it. I've personally managed to join the wrong side of a circuit before and only realised as I announced I was descending on the deadside that I was in fact descending into the circuit.

The current system allows you to bring up a map of the airfield with an arrow that points to where you currently are. This works pretty well but it could work better if SkyDemon knew which runway and circuit direction you intended to land on and follow.

Any depiction of a circuit would be preceeded or accompanied by a warning that it represents a standard circuit and has no knowledge of local variations.

Brilliant addition! Canyt wait to see it.

Beech Bonanza A36 Based at Blackpool

G-FOZZ www.gotoair.com

I think the  selectable joining point is a great idea.

I agree with Revilla that directions to join the circuit "standard way" could be dangerously missleading. I would personally never follow such directions without prior verification with official VAC charts, especially after reading your warning, that actually "system has no knowledge about local conditions" Then what is "standard" in the first place? As I know "standard" joining differes from country to country.

Moreover I can not imagine how practical would be selecting joining points: pushing fingers at poore resolution screen in possibly bad screen visibility conditions (sun) at one of the most critical moment of the flight, when you normally should look out for trafic in the circuit, listening to radio, identifying wind by windsock direction, etc...



This functionallity would be helpfull if one day real circuit geometry and joining/departing patterns could be shown on airfield plate.



All above critisizm is about joining the circuit. But I like the idea to give some information about circuit itself. I would give following:

-Frequency ( but not "Approach", it should be "TWR" or "A/A");

-Altitude of the circuit and Altitude of the runway (or Altitude of Circuit and its Heght above runway);

-Visual presentation of circuit (simplified, just to show on which side of runway it is);

-Clear runway numbers (you have it already on extended centerline, but I noticed if there are L and R runways, sometimes numbers overlap and difficult to read).



And all this better to be accesible during flight preparation, not just pop up during actual flight, as I still would be more comfortable if I can review and verify this data before the flight.

Would be a very good and possibly unique addition.



I can imagine a fixed plate with the whole aerodrome shown in the center of the plate, with big runways and big runway designators (numbers). The position of the aeroplane depicted moving on the plate. The Runway colour changes when the pilot taps the screen on the desired runway End. Last minute runway changes can be made by tapping again any of the other runways. If possible the runway colour, once tapped adopts a sequentially changing shades of a distinct colour ranging from the approach to the departure ends along the whole length of the runway, making the desired runway stand out for ease of reference.



It would be nice to have an inset or part of the screen made available to show the flight final approach & landing profile.

Very Newbytheway

DurhamTeaseAirport

So far what we have is the ability to choose a runway. In the current public version when you view the airfield "plate" you see a map with a plane icon (or arrow) overlaid. We've changed this so that the runway numbers are drawn much bigger, in circles which are actually buttons. The selected runway end is highlighted. We have retained the automatic runway selection from before, so that if you don't explicitly choose one you'll get the one that is most aligned to your current position. If you do select one, then that becomes the active runway end regardless of your position. This answers a demand we had previously to be able to select your target runway end earlier in the flight.

We can depict a "standard" circuit (with accompanying warning), or we can depict a sort of abbreviated circuit, with only a couple of arrows connected to the ends of the runway showing which direction to turn, or we can depict nothing at all. What do you think?

Regardless of what we do with circuit depiction, once a runway has been selected we want to overlay some useful information on both the main map and on the airfield "plate" screen. Info would be the vital statistics of the runway selected and an appropriate frequency, selected automatically from the list. This would have to be cyclable (by tapping) since some airfields have multiple appropriate frequencies, but by default we'd choose TWR or A/G or A/A.

Since we don't have any local data for circuit geometries we may have to dispense with the idea of offering to alter the route to guide you to part of the circuit instead of the ARP. Any other suggestions are welcome!

Personally I would go with the abbreviated circuit depiction, showing a clear indication of the circuit direction turns. As I mentioned before I wasn't entirely comfortable with the idea of showing a full circuit pattern, but the abbreviated information you mention sounds very useful. By the way, is (or when will) this be available in some sort of beta so we can see where you are at?